5 thoughts on “The 100 Greatest Mixed Martial Artists (MMA) of All-Time”
Great list in general. However I think you have some people very low. Demetrius Johnson should be way higher. His utter dominance of his division was something only replicated by the likes of GSP, Aldo and Silva. While 11 titles defenses in row (the UFC record) is impressive, I do get the fact he is in flyweight, which is a less competitive division. The sheer dominance he displayed quickly finishing some of the best flyweights the UFC has to offer such as, Cejudo, Benavidez and Tim Elliot. To conclude while I think that the fact that some put Johnson as there GOAT or even top three is ridiculous he at least deserves a top 10 spot given all he has done for flyweight and smaller guys in MMA in general.
I also believe that Frank Mir is a bit underrated here. If we are ranking the best fighters of all time, yes I agree Mir barely cracks the top 100 but this a greatest list. Mir was brawler, plain and simple; he went after you, tried to get on top of you and he if he did he would bash your head repeatedly until the TKO or put you in a arm-bar. But at the place MMA was at the time Mike was a beast and a top contender throughout his career. He elevated the game winning a UFC championship and an interim championship and challenging the likes of Brock Lesnar for the title. He brought attention to the sport and when you saw Mir was on the card you knew it was going to be show. As well as this unlike in other sports where at the start the top guys where amateurs and playing plumbers like basketball, MMA is quite new so the early 2000s was still a new time for the sport. I am not trying to say he is better than Jon Jones or Stipe Miocic but for the era he was in he elevated the level and the attention of MMATo conclude Mir was one of the best in MMA in his time and brought attention to the sport, and when some talk about him great is often a word thrown around.
Great stuff, Skii. I appreciate the love for D. Johnson and Mir. You bring up a good point about the meaning of “greatest.” Certainly, it’s open for interpretation. I lean more toward the “best fighters of all-time interpretation” with my focuses particularly on the following:
1). Strength of schedule
2). Peak run–I largely ignore green (early in career) and twilight (late career) fights.
3). Marquee victories over ranked fighters in the top 5-10 with a major premium on those ranked in the top 2-3.
4). Avoiding bad losses during the peak run
For me, D. Johnson is underwhelming on 1 and 3, decent on 4 (although his peak was so long that Moraes and McCall could be considered peak losses), and he obviously shines on #2 with his 11 title defenses in a row as you mentioned. I’d be much more inclined to have him up where you have him had those title defenses been against stronger competition.
Mir was a bona fide bad ass who had no fear. He fought a killer schedule, and I think you gave him a worthy tribute. He comes up short in the parameters that I emphasize, but there’s no question he was an early OG.
Very well put. I think that impact on the sport is the big divider between best and greatest for me but as you said it is up to interpretation. To respond to you about Johnson (who if you can’t tell is one of my favorite fighters) is that he wasn’t ducking any fights like a Jon Jones is currently. For one reason or another the lighter the guy is the shorter is career. When Johnson could have faced the likes of Pantoja or Moreno he was already on his way down on the imaginary bell curve. It just woudnt of been a smart move which is partly why he moved away from the UFC. This wall that you have previously adressed that many greats face is at the tail end of their career. People like Silva probably should have called it quites after a loss or two(or 5). As for strength of schedule, Johnson was a fighting champion booking whatever fight they gave him and I don’t think you can pin it on him too much that he was Flyweight( I mean he would of been one chubby Lightweight that’s for sure). The point is he practically murdered his entire division and when he realized he was slipping and maybe the fact that stronger opposition was coming him he moved to ONE which for all intensive purposes for him was a retirement league. Like do we take points away from Neymar for going to Saudi or Pele for going to the MLS?
Totally agree on murdering the division and not ducking anyone. His strength of schedule isn’t his fault in the same way it’s not Babe Ruth or Bill Russell’s fault for playing in totally or largely segregated leagues, or Gordie Howe’s fault that he played in a league with just six teams. Like D. Johnson, they did as well as they could do with what they were given. However, when comparing athletes across eras–or in D. Johnson’s case, across eras and weight classes–degree of difficulty is a big factor. In nearly every case, the athlete was not in control of that degree of difficulty. No shade on Johnson’s intentions AT ALL. No shade on what he did against who was lined up in front of him. He took care of who he was supposed to take care of during his title reign. Had he defeated Cruz and Cejudo (the 2nd time), he’d be a lock for the top-5 for me. Even just defeating Cejudo the 2nd time gets him pretty close to the top 10 for me. Fair or not, those fights carry disproportionate significance since those caliber fights were few and far between on his schedule. To be honest, I think we’re pretty close on Johnson. I have him as the greatest flyweight of all-time. I suspect the biggest difference is how much of a discount we apply to the flyweight division.
I agree. Having him at in the mid 20s might be a bit aggressive because as you said he is the goat of his division and their are only 8 divisions so their are over 15 non-divisional goats ahead of him. Do agree just being a flyweight does deduct points.
Great list in general. However I think you have some people very low. Demetrius Johnson should be way higher. His utter dominance of his division was something only replicated by the likes of GSP, Aldo and Silva. While 11 titles defenses in row (the UFC record) is impressive, I do get the fact he is in flyweight, which is a less competitive division. The sheer dominance he displayed quickly finishing some of the best flyweights the UFC has to offer such as, Cejudo, Benavidez and Tim Elliot. To conclude while I think that the fact that some put Johnson as there GOAT or even top three is ridiculous he at least deserves a top 10 spot given all he has done for flyweight and smaller guys in MMA in general.
I also believe that Frank Mir is a bit underrated here. If we are ranking the best fighters of all time, yes I agree Mir barely cracks the top 100 but this a greatest list. Mir was brawler, plain and simple; he went after you, tried to get on top of you and he if he did he would bash your head repeatedly until the TKO or put you in a arm-bar. But at the place MMA was at the time Mike was a beast and a top contender throughout his career. He elevated the game winning a UFC championship and an interim championship and challenging the likes of Brock Lesnar for the title. He brought attention to the sport and when you saw Mir was on the card you knew it was going to be show. As well as this unlike in other sports where at the start the top guys where amateurs and playing plumbers like basketball, MMA is quite new so the early 2000s was still a new time for the sport. I am not trying to say he is better than Jon Jones or Stipe Miocic but for the era he was in he elevated the level and the attention of MMATo conclude Mir was one of the best in MMA in his time and brought attention to the sport, and when some talk about him great is often a word thrown around.
Great stuff, Skii. I appreciate the love for D. Johnson and Mir. You bring up a good point about the meaning of “greatest.” Certainly, it’s open for interpretation. I lean more toward the “best fighters of all-time interpretation” with my focuses particularly on the following:
1). Strength of schedule
2). Peak run–I largely ignore green (early in career) and twilight (late career) fights.
3). Marquee victories over ranked fighters in the top 5-10 with a major premium on those ranked in the top 2-3.
4). Avoiding bad losses during the peak run
For me, D. Johnson is underwhelming on 1 and 3, decent on 4 (although his peak was so long that Moraes and McCall could be considered peak losses), and he obviously shines on #2 with his 11 title defenses in a row as you mentioned. I’d be much more inclined to have him up where you have him had those title defenses been against stronger competition.
Mir was a bona fide bad ass who had no fear. He fought a killer schedule, and I think you gave him a worthy tribute. He comes up short in the parameters that I emphasize, but there’s no question he was an early OG.
Very well put. I think that impact on the sport is the big divider between best and greatest for me but as you said it is up to interpretation. To respond to you about Johnson (who if you can’t tell is one of my favorite fighters) is that he wasn’t ducking any fights like a Jon Jones is currently. For one reason or another the lighter the guy is the shorter is career. When Johnson could have faced the likes of Pantoja or Moreno he was already on his way down on the imaginary bell curve. It just woudnt of been a smart move which is partly why he moved away from the UFC. This wall that you have previously adressed that many greats face is at the tail end of their career. People like Silva probably should have called it quites after a loss or two(or 5). As for strength of schedule, Johnson was a fighting champion booking whatever fight they gave him and I don’t think you can pin it on him too much that he was Flyweight( I mean he would of been one chubby Lightweight that’s for sure). The point is he practically murdered his entire division and when he realized he was slipping and maybe the fact that stronger opposition was coming him he moved to ONE which for all intensive purposes for him was a retirement league. Like do we take points away from Neymar for going to Saudi or Pele for going to the MLS?
Totally agree on murdering the division and not ducking anyone. His strength of schedule isn’t his fault in the same way it’s not Babe Ruth or Bill Russell’s fault for playing in totally or largely segregated leagues, or Gordie Howe’s fault that he played in a league with just six teams. Like D. Johnson, they did as well as they could do with what they were given. However, when comparing athletes across eras–or in D. Johnson’s case, across eras and weight classes–degree of difficulty is a big factor. In nearly every case, the athlete was not in control of that degree of difficulty. No shade on Johnson’s intentions AT ALL. No shade on what he did against who was lined up in front of him. He took care of who he was supposed to take care of during his title reign. Had he defeated Cruz and Cejudo (the 2nd time), he’d be a lock for the top-5 for me. Even just defeating Cejudo the 2nd time gets him pretty close to the top 10 for me. Fair or not, those fights carry disproportionate significance since those caliber fights were few and far between on his schedule. To be honest, I think we’re pretty close on Johnson. I have him as the greatest flyweight of all-time. I suspect the biggest difference is how much of a discount we apply to the flyweight division.
I agree. Having him at in the mid 20s might be a bit aggressive because as you said he is the goat of his division and their are only 8 divisions so their are over 15 non-divisional goats ahead of him. Do agree just being a flyweight does deduct points.