59 thoughts on “The 125 Greatest Soccer Players of All-Time”

1. 

   Interesting list ! I’ve never seen a list that ranks Lewandowski so highly, although it’s hard to disagree seen as he’s still doing the business at 36 ! I know you say that Pele shouldn’t rank number one just on reputation and I agree. However, I would argue that Zidane is probably ranked as highly as he is based on reputation. For all of his talent, he was a very inconsistent player, especially at club level. He was brilliant at international tournaments but also played in a very strong French team. I have no doubt that Rivaldo and Nedved were better, more consistent and more productive players.

   1. 

      Hey Mark, thanks for the comments!

      Lewandowski is closing in on 400 Big 5 Domestic League Goals (regular season), 100 International Goals, and 100 Champions League goals. If/when he reaches those three milestones, I suspect that more fans/pundits will realize how remarkable and unique his career has been. His age 36 season has been bananas. 14 goals in 11 matches is a torrid pace. Can’t wait to see how the rest of the season plays out.

      Your point about Zidane is fair. There are several worthy midfielders to consider on a list like this. One of the most difficult decisions was Zidane vs. Iniesta. I went back and forth, but landed on Zidane due to his physicality and individual hardware. Zidane was named the Onze d’Or three times, Onze d’Argent three times, and the Onze D’Bronze once. This is seven seasons where he was considered a top-three player. Messi (8) and Ronaldo (7) are the only other players to finish in the top three more than five times. Obviously these trophies aren’t the end all, be all, but Ronaldhino (4) is the only other midfielder to have more than two finishes in the top 3. Part of a list like this is individual accolades and it’s hard to beat Zizou there. Of course, you mention his international success and that has to be front and center when considering his place in history. His run from ’98 to ’06 is one of the great international runs ever. Yes, France had talent, but France had failed to even qualify for the World Cup the previous two tournaments before Zidane led the breakthrough in ’98. France’s subsequent win at the ’00 Euros gave Les Bleus the distinction of being the first team since ’74 to hold the World Cup and Euro trophies at the same time. Nedved and Rivaldo had great careers and it’s certainly possible they were “better” players. In the absence of a one-size fits all test, I have to go with the player with the individual accolades and team hardware and few have Zidane beat in that comparison.

2. 

   Lewa should have 2 Ballon d ors

   1. 

      It’s true.

3. 

   trash list pelee is numer oneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

   1. 

      I’m trying to decide if this is parody or not. Either way, it’s perfect.

4. 

   Pele should be number one and lewondoski should be like, 25

   1. 

      It’s interesting how you’re suggesting that the greatest soccer player of all-time played in the 1960s when global competition was relatively weak and there were only 4 countries capable of winning the World Cup. The level of soccer competition across the globe has increased immensely since then. It’s not even a fair comparison. Additionally, Pele never had to face the grueling, day-in, day-out schedule of the European top leagues. Instead, he was able to feast on a Brazilian state league. When he did participate in the top levels of competition at the World Cup, he was routinely injured. Soccer has evolved considerably since then. To suggest that the greatest player of all-time came from such a weak era of soccer is to disregard how much the game has evolved.

      As for your Lewandowski take, that’s not going to age well…

      “There is little question that Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are the two greatest footballers of all-time. Their accomplishments are in a different stratosphere than anyone who has ever played the game considering their competition level. Pele, of course, was a word-class player who was the long serving GOAT following his legendary exploits on the pitch in–and for–Brazil, but it’s difficult to compare Pele and the other great players of his era like Eusebio, Garrincha, and Alfredo Di Stefano to the juggernauts that are Messi and Ronaldo. Domestic league competition in the mid-20th century was considerably more diluted than what we see today. Pele did his cooking in a Brazilian state league, which is similar to LeBron James playing all of his games in the Mid-American Conference (MAC).

      While Pele’s star has been surpassed by the two mega-stars of this era, the player who joins Pele as Messi and Ronaldo’s closest galactic neighbor is Robert Lewandowski. There’s no question that Lewy is a known commodity in the soccer world, but his resume is much, much more historically significant than most probably realize. In fact, when it comes to doing things that had previously never been done before in a Big 5 domestic league, he’s the closest to Messi and Ronaldo that we have ever seen.

      The argument for Lewandowski is as easy as they come. He has led a Big 5 domestic league in goals a record eight times. Not even the great Cristiano Ronaldo can say the same. He scored at least 10 goals in three different UEFA Champions League seasons (UCL). Only Messi and Ronaldo have duplicated that feat. He scored 41 goals for Bayern in 2020-2021. Only Messi and Ronaldo scored more in a single Big 5 domestic league season. He scored 15 goals in the 2019-2020 UCL season. Only Ronaldo scored more in a UCL season. He scored at least 13 goals on two different occasions in the UCL. Only Ronaldo did it more often. Lewandowski has 94 career UCL goals. Only Messi and Ronaldo scored more. Lewandowski’s UCL goals per game ratio stands at .78. Among players with at least 50 UCL goals, only Messi has a better ratio. Lewandowski has 386 (and counting) Big 5 domestic league goals. Only Ronaldo and Messi have more. Lewandowski has 12 Big 5 domestic league seasons with at least 27 goal contributions (goals + assists) and 11 Big 5 domestic league seasons with at least 29 goal contributions. Only Messi and Ronaldo have more. He has five Big 5 domestic league seasons with at least 30 goals. Only Messi and Ronaldo have more. Lewandowski scored a hat trick in the UCL for three different clubs. Nobody has ever equaled that feat and it’s possible nobody ever will. Lewy has six UCL hat tricks. Only Messi and Ronaldo have more.

      Keep in mind that while Lewy’s Bayern Munich club never hurt for talent, he didn’t have the luxury of playing with Xavi, Iniesta, Luis Suarez, Neymar, and Mbappe like Messi did, or Benzema, Toni Kroos, Luka Modric, and a prime Gareth Bale like Ronaldo did. It’s not hard to imagine Lewandowski’s goal contributions inflating in a lineup featuring some of the greatest players the sport has ever seen. It’s also not hard to imagine his raw statistics inching even closer to the land of the absurd had he the benefit of a 38-game schedule like Messi and Ronaldo had in La Liga. The Bundesliga–where Lewandowski played for 12 seasons–is the only Big 5 domestic league that plays a 34-game schedule.

      It’s pretty clear that Lewandowski’s domestic league and Champions League production is more impressive than any non-Messi, non-Ronaldo footballer who has ever taken the pitch. Where he would appear to fall short are his contributions on the international stage, but looks can be deceiving. Lewandowski’s home country of Poland has not been an international force since the late 70s/early 80s. Poland’s typical roster looks nothing like the loaded rosters that Messi and Ronaldo have had the luxury of playing with for Argentina and Portugal, respectively. Messi has achieved massive acclaim for his country. He led Argentina to one of the great international runs as La Abiceleste (Argentina’s nickname) emerged victorious at both the 2021 and 2024 Copa Americas as well as the 2022 World Cup. Add in a 2nd place finish at the 2014 World Cup and Messi is clearly one of the great international performers of all-time. Ronaldo doesn’t have the trophy case to match Messi’s, but his international run with Portugal has been impressive in its own right. Ronaldo won the 2016 UEFA Euros, finished 2nd in 2004, and reached the semi-finals at both the 2006 World Cup and 2012 Euros. Ronaldo (130) and Messi (109) are, far and away, the top international goal scorers of all-time.

      However, given the talent advantages that Ronaldo and Messi have had with Portugal and Argentina, Lewandowski’s contributions with Poland should not be overlooked. Prior to Lewy joining the Polish National Team, Poland had qualified for the Euros just once in its history. Since 2012, Poland has qualified for four consecutive Euros including its best ever finish (5th) in 2016. Lewandowski also helped Poland qualify for back-to-back World Cups in ‘18 and ‘22 for only the second time since 1986. His 83 international goals are the 9th most in history.

      It’s doubtful that Lewandowski will be universally recognized as a top-3 or top-5 player of all-time due to factors outside of his control. He doesn’t have the same marketability or name recognition as many of the great players of his era. Poland is not a soccer powerhouse which means his status as a national icon is somewhat muted in a way that players like Messi, Ronaldo, and Mbappe will never be. The Bundesliga does not get the kind of attention that the Premier League or La Liga get (nor does it have a 38-game schedule). However, the numbers, accolades, and the degree of difficulty are there to justify his standing as the greatest non-Messi, non-Ronaldo footballer of the last 50 years. “

5. 

   Pele is the GOAT. Until Messi wins 3 world cups, then Pele remains GOAT

   1. 

      Pele didn’t win three World Cups. He won two. He didn’t make it past the 2nd game of the tournament in 1962. Even if he did (he didn’t), do you really think the quality of competition around the world in the 1960’s is even close to the same that it is today? By that standard, the inventor of every sport would always be the greatest who ever played. The quality of competition needs to be paramount in these discussions.

6. 

   Hey Jake
   What does it mean when a player has won the Onze de Onze?

   1. 

      Great question! The Onze de Onze isn’t like the Ballon d’ Or where one player wins it each year. It’s actually a dream team of the best soccer players each year. The list is limited to European soccer leagues and is given out by Onze de Mondial which is a French soccer magazine. There are other publications/associations who name the 11 best players each year like FIFPRO World 11 (this is voted by the players) and the IFFHS World Team (which is named by the International Federation of Football History and Statistics).

      These teams are equivalent to being named a 1st-team All-Pro in the NFL, 1st-team All-NBA team in basketball, 1st-team All Star in the NHL, or a 1st team All American in a college sports.

      1. 

         I have another question do you know what a “brace” is? I’m just reading about Maradona’s career on wiki and it said he scored a brace.

         1. 

            2 goals in a game.

7. 

   Wow I have never seen a list that ranked Zico so low. To each their own I guess.

   1. 

      I appreciate the comment. Zico is the rare player whose purported skill/ability doesn’t line up with his resume which makes him difficult to rank. A good way to assess his career is to compare it to Neymar’s. Neither won a World Cup with stacked Brazilian teams. However, Neymar not only played in an era that was significantly more competitive than when Zico played, he did so in Europe where he had access to the biggest stage in the Champions League. Neymar tallied 76 goal contributions in 81 Champions League games, including leading the competition in goals in the 2014-2015 season. He also won seven Big Five domestic league titles in 10 years while averaging over a goal contribution per game. Because Zico spent the majority of his career playing in Brazil, his career is bereft of these high-profile opportunities. Zico spent two seasons with Udinese in Serie A (Italian) and the team saw its place in the standings decline both seasons. Even in the Brazilian domestic league, Zico’s resume doesn’t overwhelm. He led Flamengo to three league titles in 18 years and led the league in goals twice.

      Zico had opportunities to bolster his resume, but didn’t pile up the hardware and accolades that the vast majority of the players above him did. Even just one World Cup win or a run at the top of the table in Serie A would’ve given his resume more teeth. Given how difficulty he is to rank, I won’t begrudge anyone who has him ranked higher.

8. 

   Hey Jake, how would you rank the top soccer leagues in order after the big 5?

   1. 

      I’d say the Campeanato Brasileirao (Brazil), Portuguese Primeira Liga (Portugal), Belgian Pro League (Belgium), MLS (U.S.), and the Dutch Eredivisie (Netherlands) are in the next tier.

9. 

   No Erwin Helmchen? Even an honorable mention?

   1. 

      Soccer prior to WWII didn’t have strong international competition outside of the World Cup. Helmchen cooked in city and regional leagues and had no success whatsoever at the World Cup. We could add dozens and dozens of players to the honorable mention from that era who did the same. I heavily weighed competition level for pre-WWII era. I would not have a problem with Helmchen being included on an honorable mention list, but then we’d be looking at a much longer list, IMO. As for top-125, he would be far, far outside of that group.

10. 

    If Championships were not a factor in your rankings, do you think your list would change much?

    1. 

       For sure. Championships are not just how we know the best teams, but it’s when we get to see athletes face the highest pressure against the best competition. Several athletes are capable of excelling in regular season games when competition levels vary considerably. Take James Harden, for example. If we didn’t factor in playoffs/championships, Harden would probably be rated higher (same with Karl Malone and Barry Sanders among several others). However, because playoffs exist, we can see that there are players who are capable of taking over not just a series, but an entire playoff the way Harden, Malone, and Sanders couldn’t.

       We gotta be careful with championships, though. It’s much easier to excel on stacked teams. That’s what makes rating someone like Neymar (and several other Messi/Ronaldo teammates) so difficult. Neymar was a beast, but he was surrounded by greatness. How much of what he accomplished was because he played on stacked teams? Probably a decent amount. How important was Neymar to those teams winning? Probably also a decent amount. So, it’s important not to just count championships. We have to ask, how important was the player in winning the championship? Otherwise, every basketball top-100 list would have Robert Horry on it.

       This gets tricky with an athlete who never even had the chance to perform in the playoffs, like Mike Trout. He is undoubtedly one of the great baseball players of the past 50 years. However, he’s never even sniffed a championship because his team never makes the playoffs. The way I handle this dynamic is to make sure to only credit championships that players had a disproportionate influence on. That way it’s more of a bonus for someone like Neymar, rather than a negative for someone like Trout.

11. 

    Which you you think is better competition, the UEFA European Championship or the UEFA Champions League?

    1. 

       It’s probably a pretty close comparison with the teams in the final stages of the Champions League, but overall I’ll go with the depth at the Euros (UEFA European Championship) since the national teams from Spain, Germany, France, Italy, England, Portugal, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, and Switzerland among others are glorified all-star teams. Other factors: the national teams have a limitless pool of players that they can use at all times. European club teams don’t have that luxury which makes injuries more impactful. The Champions League is a little watered down in the early stages. The Euros are never watered down. The Champions League teams will have a little more familiarity with each other since they play so many more games than National teams do. However, I suspect that you might get a little more intensity out of a player playing for their country vs. a club.

       The competition level is very high in both competitions, so probably not a significant difference either way.

12. 

    is the European Golden Shoe basically the same thing as the Gerd Muller Trophy?

    1. 

       The European Golden Shoe is the player who scored the most club goals in European top leagues. The Gerd Muller Trophy is the player who scored the most club and national team goals.

13. 

    Hey Jake, do you know what the difference is between the Brazilian Bola de Ouro and the Bola de Prata?

    1. 

       The Brazilian Bola de Ouro goes to the best player in the Campeanato Brasileiro. The Bola de Prata is the dream team (best at each position) of the Campeanato Brasileiro.

       1. 

          What about Neymar’s Chuteira de Ouro?

          1. 

             Honestly, I don’t know what that is referring to. I know it’s on his Wikipedia page, but he didn’t win the Chuteira de Ouro (Golden Boot) in the Campeanato Brasileiro in 2010, 2011, 2012, based on who led the league in goals each of those years.

14. 

    I think Maradona should be higher. On most lists he’s top 3.

    1. 

       If I agreed with most lists, this site wouldn’t exist. As a reminder: most list makers significantly overrate athletes who a). played when competition levels were poor, and b). were in their prime when the listmaker was a youth. Biases are hard to overcome.
        
       Maradona was a fantastic player. I think it’s fair to say that he was the best player in the world during the 1980s. However, if I were going to change his ranking, it would be to lower it, not raise it. I would have serious questions for any list that has him #3. Messi and Ronaldo are miles ahead, and Pele was almost universally considered the GOAT before Messi and Ronaldo came along. That doesn’t mean Pele was better, it’s just that I don’t understand how Maradona ends up ahead of Pele on most lists if that was never the conventional wisdom to begin with.

       It’s easy to get caught up in the lore of Maradona, and that’s why I think you see him rated higher than he probably should be, but his resume has a lot of flaws. First, he was done at 29. Robert Lewandowski is currently 2nd in all Big 5 leagues in goals going on age 37, and he led the Big 5 in goals at 32 and 33. Additionally, Maradona was an alleged cocaine addict and alcoholic who battled weight issues which made him an inconsistent performer. Surely, he was capable of greatness, but whenever anyone talks about him, the first thing they say is “you just had to see him with the ball!” Nobody ever cites accolades or accomplishments, and that’s because it’s a losing argument for Maradona (relatively speaking, of course). His statistics simply don’t stand up to the other GOAT candidates, or anyone else in the top-5 for that matter.   

       It’s also worth noting that the greatest accomplishment of his career–winning the 1986 World Cup–was due in large part to a blatantly illegal play (“The Hand of God”) in which he clearly punched the ball into the net with his fist in a 2-1 win over England in the quarterfinals. Without that play, Maradona might never have won a World Cup. If that had happened today, it would be the quickest VAR overturn in history, and if it had been Miroslav Klose, the goal never would have counted in the first place.   

       Does all of this mean that Maradona wasn’t an elite soccer player? Of course, not. However, when you’re talking about the greatest resumes of all-time, the elite ones typically have very few flaws, if any. Time will go by and the lore of Maradona will continue to grow, and people will continue to say, “you just had to see him with the ball.” Meanwhile, when is the last modern athlete who we decided to throw out the statistics for when talking about their legacy? We’ve gotta be careful here or Kyrie Irving is coming to a top-5 list near you. I mean, he dribbles the basketball better than anyone else, right?  

15. 

    Hey Jake, is there a difference between the FIFA Player of the Year Award (AKA the one Lewandowski won) and the Ballon d’Or?

    1. 

       Yes, they are two different awards. One is given by FIFA, while the other is given by France Football (a French soccer magazine). The Ballon has more fanfare, but there’s really nothing that makes one better than the other.

16. 

    Hey Jake, is the Golden Foot Award an important award?

    1. 

       The Golden Foot doesn’t factor into these rankings at all. It’s similar to the Lady Byng Trophy in the NHL. It’s an honor for the player, and it certainly means something to the player. However, in terms of how it affects a player’s legacy on a list like this, it’s not a consideration.

17. 

    Hey Jake, where do you think Romelu Lukaku would go in your rankings? I think he’s pretty good.

    1. 

       Lukaku is a beast. He was in the running for a spot in the 125. He’s still relatively young. If he can put together a few more strong seasons, I can see him cracking the list.

18. 

    Out of the three positions Ruud Gullit played, which one did he play primarily?

    1. 

       Attacking mid.

19. 

    I always thought Iniesta was overrated for some reason. Maybe it’s just me.

    1. 

       Beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to the midfield. However, the list of players who won a World Cup, 2 Euros, 4 UCLs, and 9 Big 5 League titles has one name on it: Iniesta. In fact, nobody else has even won 1 Euro, 4 UCLs, and 9 Big 5 League titles, let alone adding another Euro and a World Cup. Iniesta has more FIFPRO World XI (9) and UEFA Team of the Year (6) honors than any midfielder in history. He also has one of the biggest moments in World Cup history when he scored in the 116th minute in the 2010 final to give Spain the title. I can’t think of too many players who definitely have better resumes than Iniesta. I think that list probably stands at Messi and Ronaldo.

20. 

    Hey Parker,

    You asked how many players have won the Ballon d’Or, a UCL, and the World Cup. Your comment got deleted so I’ll answer here. There are nine players who have won all three. Kaka only played 19 minutes in a single group stage game when Brazil won the World Cup in 2002, so he counts by definition only.

    Messi
    Ronaldinho
    Rivaldo
    Zidane
    Paolo Rossi
    Franz Beckenbauer
    Gerd Muller
    Bobby Charlton
    Kaka (Only played 19 minutes in the 2002 World Cup)

21. 

    Is a winger the same thing as a forward?

    1. 

       Wingers are similar to attacking midfielders, but they play out wide.

22. 

    Lewandowski is certainly a Intresting take but I would argue he wasn’t even a top 5 forward of his era. The modern is by far the best ERA the sport has ever seen, stars like Mbappe make the like of Charlton look like he should have been playing Sunday league. Messi and CR7 are definitely better than Lewa which we agree upon. However I would also add Neymar to that definitely list. While Neymar was often times over shadowed by Messi it is important not to look over him. He scored 150 goals and he was without for one of them. He he was one of the best support players the sport has ever seen really starting those pushes up the field with his sheer amount of skill. The point is stats don’t often do Neymar favors like the do to Lewa but the way he was still able to be as prolific as he was is incredible. Next up for me would be Karim Benzema who for me is the most comparable to Lewa. He scored a ton of goals and applied that threat that teams were scared of but stats wise yet again Lewa is undeniable but he not that far off. Finally Suarez,Imbrahimovic and Kane are relative to him not just because of stats but because of except Kane who there teammates where and the stats they lost because of that. Remembering that what team you play for has a big impact, I mean if Messi played for A team in Iraq his stats would definitely be better just because he would have to do it all. Of course I not saying Lewa was playing with scrubs but he was a target man so the stats are going to favor him.

    1. 

       Hey Skii, I’ve got love for all the names you mentioned. I understand your point about stats not always revealing the full value of a player. However, sometimes stats can also be overwhelming, and that is the case with Lewandowski. I want to start by establishing that there is a 0% chance that Lewandowski is going to be viewed as a top-5 player on a wide scale. Nobody is going to pound the table for a player from a country that can’t win World Cups. In fact, I don’t expect anyone to care enough to dig into his statistics. He has been pigeon-holed as a poacher, and few have the appetite to scrutinize that characterization. Additionally, he has very limited name recognition and marketing appeal (relatively speaking, of course), so he is not front and center in the soccer zeitgeist. I obviously don’t care about any of that. In order for a list like this to be grounded, it has to be rooted in numbers (where numbers exist). Soccer is weird in the sense that there is a lot of deference to flair, style, and artistry, which, of course, isn’t quantifiable. That’s what makes ranking midfielders and defenders so difficult. Still, these lists are built by what is on a resume, specifically performance and awards/championships relative to peers and strength of era/competition level. Messi and Ronaldo are, far and away, the top two. Pele should be at 3, (although there are durability and competition level arguments to be made). That 4th spot could be any number of players. Heck, an argument could be made for Maldini, Beckenbauer, or Neuer for that spot. Who’s to say the greatest defender or goalie of all time isn’t worthy of a spot in the top five? For now, Lewandowski holds the spot because the numbers give him the best argument for it. By the numbers, Zlatan, Kane, Suarez, and even Benzema aren’t close to being in the same category as Lewandowski, nor is any contemporary player outside of Messi and Ronaldo.

       Led Big 5 Domestic League in Goals

       Lewandowski 9 (more than Messi and Ronaldo)
       Kane 5
       Ibrahimovic 5
       Benzema 2
       Suarez 2

       Top-3 Big 5 Domestic League in Goals

       Lewandowski 14
       Kane 8
       Ibrahimovic 6
       Benzema 7
       Suarez 7

       Led Big 5 Domestic League in Goal Contributions

       Lewandowski 7
       Kane 4
       Ibrahimovic 5
       Benzema 2
       Suarez 3

       Top-3 Big 5 Domestic League in Goals Contributions

       Lewandowski 13
       Kane 9
       Ibrahimovic 7
       Benzema 7
       Suarez 9

       Big 5 Domestic League Seasons with 30+ Goals

       Lewandowski 5
       Kane 3
       Ibrahimovic 2
       Benzema 0
       Suarez 2

       Big 5 Domestic League Seasons with 25+ Goal Contributions

       Lewandowski 13
       Kane 5
       Ibrahimovic 8
       Benzema 9
       Suarez 7

       Big 5 Domestic League Seasons with 30+ Goal Contributions

       Lewandowski 7
       Kane 5
       Ibrahimovic 5
       Benzema 3
       Suarez 4

       Career Goals per 90 Minutes

       Lewandowski .84
       Kane .74
       Ibrahimovic .75
       Benzema .64
       Suarez .72

       Big 5 Domestic League Goals

       Lewandowski 379
       Kane 272
       Ibrahimovic 302
       Benzema 281
       Suarez 264

       Big 5 Domestic League Goal Contributions

       Lewandowski 452
       Kane 332
       Ibrahimovic 409
       Benzema 400
       Suarez 371

       UCL Goals

       Lewandowski 105
       Kane 40
       Ibrahimovic 48
       Benzema 90
       Suarez 27

       UCL Goals Contributions

       Lewandowski 126
       Kane 51
       Ibrahimovic 73
       Benzema 118
       Suarez 50

       UCL Goals/game ratio

       Lewandowski .80 (Higher than Messi and Ronaldo)
       Kane .70
       Ibrahimovic .39
       Benzema .59
       Suarez .37

       UCL Goal Contributions/game ratio

       Lewandowski .95
       Kane .89
       Ibrahimovic .59
       Benzema .78
       Suarez .68

       Big 5 Domestic League Titles

       Lewandowski 11
       Kane 0
       Ibrahimovic 11
       Benzema 8 (rarely used sub for 3 of them)
       Suarez 5

       FIFA Player of the Year

       Lewandowski 2
       Kane 0
       Ibrahimovic 0
       Benzema 0
       Suarez 0

       Honestly, I don’t know what the argument for Lewandowski not being a top-10 player of all-time looks like. Knowing these comparisons, if I had that side of a debate, I’d be concerned. My argument would have to rely heavily on histrionics with the goal of convincing the audience to ignore statistics, or to instead throw around terms like artistry and flair to convince them there’s more to soccer than putting the ball in the net more often than just about everyone else who ever played the game. Heck, Lewandowski is on the cusp of beating out Mbappe for the Pichichi at age 36. Mbappe led his domestic league in goals for six consecutive seasons until he joined a league with Lewandowski in it. The evidence is everywhere. It’ll largely be ignored or equivocated, for the reasons I discussed above, but this list isn’t built on narratives or popularity. The best argument wins. Until there’s a better argument than Lewy at 4, that’s gotta be the spot. For what it’s worth, I do think there’s a strong chance that a healthy and motivated Mbappe will cruise into the top 3 by the time he’s done playing.

23. 

    I agree with the key points, hard to argue with cold hard numbers. However remembering what team they played for is important, a majority of Lewa goals came from Bayern Munich a team that very much so fed the ball to him in the box and he would do the rest. In fact when he left they brought in the player that is probably the most similar to him at the top level, Harry Kane. Stars are going to favor the target when so I think you must keep that in mind. My second point being is the relativity of ERAs. To me, and most others Lewa might just crack the top 5 in the modern ERA. Now compare him to the likes of Sir Bobby Charlton. There is no doubt that Lewa is better than Bobby Charlton no question in fact. But that’s not what we are talking about. Charlton was the one of if not they best forward in his prime and racked up some pretty decent stats no always with the best teams. Also there is the point of we never watched Charlton play, unlike Lewa where I have watched him serious hardware mostly in the Bundesliga. But statistically he topped the charts back then so I believe that makes him much more comparable to somebody like Lewa, Kane or even Mbappe.

    1. 

       I’m with you on the Kane/Charlton comp. It’s the era for Charlton that caps his upside, IMO.

24. 

    Watch the 4 following videos

    Video 1: Entre Maradona y Messi, el Papa Francisco elige a Pele (Pope Francis of Argentina chooses Pele ahead of Maradona & Messi)

    Video 2: El padre de Maradona hablando sobre Pele (Maradona’s father speaking about Pele) …recognizing that another player was better than your son…

    Video 3: Argentinos reaccionan a Pele for primera vez Homenaje Al Rey Pele (Argentines watching Pele for first time)
    bear in mind that it has been mentioned that around 71% of Pele’s play has never been recorded

    Video 4: Pele el mejor de la HISTORIA Que dicen los argentinos (Argentina managers, players, and journalist say Pele is the greatest)

    but it’s TEAM sport

    Without Messi:
    * Barcelona won 2006 Champions League final: injured
    * Argentina won 2024 Copa America final: substituted injured

    Without Maradona, Argentina won:
    * 1978 World Cup: left out of squad
    * 2 Copa America 1991 & 1993: during his international break

    Without Pele:
    * Brazil won most of 1962 World Cup: injured
    * Santos won 2 games of 1963 Intercontinental Cup final: injured

    Without C. Ronaldo:
    * Portugal won Euro 2016 final: substituted injured
    * Man Utd won 2023 League Cup: after leaving club

    1. 

       Hi Chris, I appreciate the comment. The competition level that Pele played against isn’t close to the competition level that exists today. Opinions of older generations are not something I take into consideration. The legend of Pele has become larger than life, which heavily influences the opinions of those commenting. The sport of soccer has evolved too much since the 1960s, to keep saying Pele is the GOAT.

25. 

    Hi Jake and everybody.

    Video 4: I forgot to mention that people may rank Messi higher now since leading his country to Copa America and World Cup glory (eventhough they still see Pele as the G. O.A.T.).

    Just watch and enjoy the four videos at least.

    Take care.

    1. 

       Thanks, Chris!

26. 

    Well Jake, there’s a lot to unpack here! You make a sound observation in one of your responses here, that soccer is difficult because it’s hard to quantify with data, beyond the number of goals scored. I think it’s fair to judge strikers on goals, to an extent at least, but context is key.
    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that several of the games’ most prolific goal scorers are playing today. While competition is generally tougher, there are a few things working in favor of today’s players- particularly todays’ goal scorers. First, physical conditions are much better. Under-pitch heating means that the top guys no longer playing in virtual mud baths where passing the ball from point A to B is a challenge. Rules on tackling and fouling are much stricter today than ever before. You mention Pele’s limited participation in two of his WC appearances – that was in large part to having lumps kicked out of him. That’s doesn’t happen to the same extent today, especially to the big stars. Modern players also benefit from far better physical conditioning, dieticians, medical teams etc, that keep them at the top of their games for longer. Players have longer careers as a result but also because playing in today’s game is so much more lucrative than anything else a footballer can do. That wasn’t the case the past when Tom Finney, for example, worked as a plumber to supplement his income and reportedly made more from unblocking toilets that unlocking defenses! The competition while generally better is not necessarily more equal; the Champions League, for example, now includes far more teams, many of which are far out of their depth versus the inter-galactic teams that dominate Spain, England and other top leagues. These matches can result in goal bounties for modern stars of Bayer, Barca, Man City etc. Likewise, at international level, the proliferation of countries playing international football (and the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia) has lead to a lot more mismatches even at a time when general standards are rising. Internationalization of the major leagues has led to “super teams” that often dominate lesser competition and score an awful lot of goals; During their three-peat, Man City scored 99, 94 and 96 premier league goals in a 38-game season. That compares with 86 that City scored when they won the title in 1967-68 in a 42 game season. But more significantly, when City won that title under Joe Mercer, the bottom team in the league scored 52 goals, whereas the bottom teams during Pep’s run of three scored only 35, 36 and 23 goals. A similar number of goals may be scored overall, but they are spread far less evenly in today’s game which advantages strikers that play for these super teams. Finally, teams have less out and out strikers today. It’s quite typical that a team has only one main striker, whereas until the 1990s at least, there were normally at least two. That creates a concentration of goals to one guy, which again benefits today’s stars.
    So I think my point is that you have correctly identified in all these lists that context is important. But it’s not a one way street. Yes, Lewandowski has scored a historic number of goals and is clearly exceptional and yes, the competition is clearly better today. But despite the competition, several guys have scored an “historic” number of goals in the last 20 years. Four of the top 10 goal scorers of all-time are active today (I’m discounting two Northern Irish guys here). For comparison, only one of the top 10 played at all in the 80s and only three in the top 25 played at all in the 80s and 90s. We have to consider that some of the success these guys have has is situational. If Lewandowski had come along and scored 700 goals in isolation, I’d be with you on having him in the top 5. But he did what he did in the context of two other guys in the same era scoring 800+ and a further two others scoring well over 500.

    1. 

       Hey Stirlo!

       Great points about how the sport has changed over time, and how those changes impact scoring today. These are factors that will be important to keep in mind when trying to place modern players. Your point about the UCL is a great one, too. While I agree with your premise overall, I differ with how it does (or doesn’t) apply specifically to Messi, Ronaldo, and Lewandowski. Messi and Ronaldo’s brilliance is no more a product of changing landscapes than what Gretzky and Lemieux accomplished in the 80s. It just so happened that the two greatest hockey players of all-time existed at the same time. Yes, there was goal inflation in the 80s, but the trophies, championships, and league-leading achievements cut through the inflation. They shattered points records, led the league in statistics, won MVPs, and built trophy cases in ways that nobody had ever come close to doing. In hindsight, their dominance wasn’t a trend set off by the changing landscape of hockey. They were the trend. Messi and Ronaldo did the same, and there is nobody who has done anything close to what Messi and Ronaldo did aside from Lewandowski. You mentioned that several of the games’ most prolific goal scorers are playing today. I think that’s a fair statement on the micro. Big picture, there just isn’t anyone coming up right now who is doing it at that level. If you agree that Harry Kane, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Karim Benzema, and Luis Suarez are top 50 players of all-time, then Lewandowski’s greatness is pretty evident. Compared to the best non-Messi, non-Ronaldo forwards of the last 20 years, Lewandowski is head and shoulders above (scroll up in the comments to see a comparison, if you haven’t seen it already). This isn’t because of goal inflation, easier opponents, or a change in pace or style. We know that being a league leader is immune to that. This is a direct comparison to other prolific scorer’s of his era. The fact that Messi, Ronaldo, and Lewandowski all debuted at the same time isn’t unprecedented. Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, and Dominik Hasek are the three greatest goaltenders of all-time (IMO). They all debuted within six years of each other. Gerd Muller, Johan Cruyff, and Franz Beckenbauer are all current top-15 who were all in the top-5 as recently as 2000 (IMO) even though they all debuted within a year of each other in 1963 and 1964. I could get behind the idea that Messi, Ronaldo, and Lewandowski are a product of goal inflation if there were a bunch of players reaching 40 goal contributions, leading the Big 5 leagues in goals 9 times, and winning multiple FIFA Player of the Year awards. That just doesn’t appear to be happening, much like the massive point and hardware counts by Gretzky and Lemieux weren’t duplicated by anyone in their aftermath. Now, if we start seeing several players putting together a string of 30 and 40-goal seasons, then that is something that could add more context to what Lewandowski has accomplished. If ten years from now this list has a top-10 exclusively filled with strikers from the last decade, then, well, the list has gone rotten and I’ve been asleep at the wheel. Until there is any evidence that is happening, he’s the closest thing to Messi and Ronaldo that we’ve seen, and there’s nobody other than Mbappe in the vicinity.

       I’m curious your answer to this question: What would a resume need to look like for a player from Poland–or a similar country that has virtually no chance of winning a World Cup–to be considered a top-5 player all time? In other words, what would you expect to reasonably be on Lewandowski’s resume that isn’t? FYI–Every player in the current top-25 comes (or came) from a country that has the talent to win a World Cup (this includes Hungary who had the talent to win the World Cup when he played) with the exception of Lewandowski.

27. 

    Hi Jake, I like the comparison with the NHL and Gretzky and Lemieux. Honestly I struggle with Messi and Ronaldo as the top 2, though I agree their case is overwhelming. But to put the third best goal scorer of his generation in the top 4 of all players all-time is a stretch for me.
    For me there’s a lot more to the game than finishing. I will never get over just how magically good Maradona was in his prime. I’m still struggling with the idea that Messi and Ronaldo could be better, let alone a pure goal scorer like Lewandowski.

28. 

    Thinking a little more about your question regarding Lewa, I think the answer is I’d like to be more convinced that he was/is even the third best player of his generation. Certainly he’s the third best goal scorer, but there’s more to the game than the number of goals you score. Beyond goals, a lot of it is consensus opinion, and that’s obviously how Ballon D’Ors and the likes are awarded. But Lewa was never the next guy after Messi and Ronnie. Ok, he should probably have won one in 2020 but beyond that he was only in the top 3 once. The likes of Xavi, Neymar, Greizman were often preferred as the third wheel. Even in the odd off year for Messi-Naldo, Lewa didn’t rise to the top. Now there’s nothing to say the Ball D’Or guys get it right, but beyond goals, we do have to rely on consensus opinion to a large extent, and I don’t think Lewa was routinely consensus top 3 in the way Messi and Ronaldo were ALWAYS consensus top 2. And if your argument to be 4th ALL-TIME is that you were the next best after numbers 1 and 2 in your era, we need to be pretty certain that he was indeed the next best guy.

    1. 

       I appreciate the thought that you put into your response, and I understand your hesitance. Lewandowski’s placement (and Muller’s by extension) is something that I continue to revisit. However, I do think there is ample evidence that he was definitively the 3rd guy of his generation. Obviously, you know all the stats, but he won the the FIFA Player of the Year in back to back years. Ronaldo (Brazilian), Messi, and Ronaldo are the only other players to be named by FIFA as the best player in the world over two consecutive years. Everyone knows he would’ve won the Ballon in 2020, and he likely should’ve won in 2021. Had those happened, we’re having a different conversation. Those should have happened. The first one might as well be a definite. The second, well, the stats are the stats. Even without the Ballons, France Football is no more “right” than FIFA. Based on consensus opinion, I would say he is definitely the 3rd of his era. Highlighting Xavi, Neymar, and Greizmann–none of who ever finished in the top-2 of Ballon or FIFA voting–as Lewandowski’s competition for the 3rd spot only seems to further support this.

       1. 

          I think you can certainly argue that Lewa is number 3 of his era, but its not clear cut by any means. He outlasted many of the others for sure. But a close run number 3 spot doesn’t make him 4th all-time in my book.